I want to offer up a point for reasonable debate here: Suppose you are against new data center construction as a (clumsy) policy lever to regulate the pace of AI progress and harms.
Do the facts matter? If the water issue is “fake” or overblown, but it’s resonating with voters who are packing town halls and ultimately effecting the change you want (a broad slowdown in the construction of new compute) is that a problem?
Congress isn’t going to get off its ass. There is momentum here. Who actually cares if people are making misinformed choices if the outcome is correct?
(If you think the outcome is not correct, that’s a different debate entirely.)
This just isn't how you model water use in a practical way.
- If you're going to attribute water use via electricity to data centers you need to be fair and apply it to the rest of the electricity users. And in the end, you're just raising everyone's baseline water consumption in proportion to their electricity use. Why not leave the baseline increase out and leave water use attributed at the industry level (datacenters vs coal plants vs solar plants vs ...)?
- Different kinds of electrical generation plants use different amounts of water. To get an accurate number for an electricity consumer you're backing out the mix of generation sources in your model. You've introduced complexity to your model and reduced the precision of the answers your model gives when you could just get simpler and better answers leaving it at the industry level.
- Suppose we had a place with genuinely scarce water. There is some level of water draw that's unsustainable; you can never cross that level because it'll damage the environment. If there's ever a risk of hitting that limit you're interested in all users of water (so you can correctly model how much draw happens when XYZ business or person leaves the state) pushing you back to direct attribution at the industry level. If you can't model the effects of each choice correctly how do you know the choice you made will fix the problem?
This study is using water "withdrawal" figures rather than consumptive use. Hydroelectric plants withdraw tons of water, but it goes right back into the river it came from.
Coal and nuclear cooling towers use a lot of fresh water, they try to reuse it but still between 2 to 3.5 billion gallons a year evaporates from each plant. Japanese nuclear plants don't have this problem for example because they are built on the coast and consume water directly from the ocean instead of using fresh water cooling towers.
This article would be much more effective by first acknowledging that all datacenters can be built and powered in different ways varying by location, climate and availability of power.
Generalizations unfortunately serve the subtle purpose of many people who are pro or anti datacenter, ironically while they use datacenters to write articles and use datacenters to post on social media, as well as consume video and nearly anything else.
For example the style and approaches datacenters built in desert like regions, which can be in the US, often misinform the overall understanding and conversation in this space.
Direct and indirect water use is an issue in many areas, its peculiar why it's being brought up when it's not comparing datacenters as a percentage of overall water use in an area.
And the water (and air) is already so toxically polluted from the fracking that no-one can live near or drink that water or they will get sick
It's a perfect match, again not kidding
Datacenters only need a few people to run it and they can live in highly filtered rooms like hospitals or cleanrooms, heck with bots+ai they won't even need people to run them eventually
Texas Governor Greg Abbott coming out and saying on national TV that tech companies "dug their own graves" on data center construction was a major wake up call[0]. The more research that is done on these developments, the more damning it looks.
People want to compare this to the pre-industrial rail buildouts, and sure there are some parallels, but I'd be curious to know if that period had the widespread political resentment towards to infrastructure construction that we're seeing today. Because I can also envision a scenario in which the capacity just doesn't get built since being pro-data center is becoming a political death sentence. And what happens then?
Do the facts matter? If the water issue is “fake” or overblown, but it’s resonating with voters who are packing town halls and ultimately effecting the change you want (a broad slowdown in the construction of new compute) is that a problem?
Congress isn’t going to get off its ass. There is momentum here. Who actually cares if people are making misinformed choices if the outcome is correct?
(If you think the outcome is not correct, that’s a different debate entirely.)
- If you're going to attribute water use via electricity to data centers you need to be fair and apply it to the rest of the electricity users. And in the end, you're just raising everyone's baseline water consumption in proportion to their electricity use. Why not leave the baseline increase out and leave water use attributed at the industry level (datacenters vs coal plants vs solar plants vs ...)?
- Different kinds of electrical generation plants use different amounts of water. To get an accurate number for an electricity consumer you're backing out the mix of generation sources in your model. You've introduced complexity to your model and reduced the precision of the answers your model gives when you could just get simpler and better answers leaving it at the industry level.
- Suppose we had a place with genuinely scarce water. There is some level of water draw that's unsustainable; you can never cross that level because it'll damage the environment. If there's ever a risk of hitting that limit you're interested in all users of water (so you can correctly model how much draw happens when XYZ business or person leaves the state) pushing you back to direct attribution at the industry level. If you can't model the effects of each choice correctly how do you know the choice you made will fix the problem?
I’d be fine seeing that compared to the water used by the rest of the normal electricity generation baseline I use.
Generalizations unfortunately serve the subtle purpose of many people who are pro or anti datacenter, ironically while they use datacenters to write articles and use datacenters to post on social media, as well as consume video and nearly anything else.
For example the style and approaches datacenters built in desert like regions, which can be in the US, often misinform the overall understanding and conversation in this space.
Direct and indirect water use is an issue in many areas, its peculiar why it's being brought up when it's not comparing datacenters as a percentage of overall water use in an area.
I am not kidding
They have endless cheap or even free power from the months/years of offgassing burning off methane, it can be seen from space
* https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/01/16/169511949/a...
And the water (and air) is already so toxically polluted from the fracking that no-one can live near or drink that water or they will get sick
It's a perfect match, again not kidding
Datacenters only need a few people to run it and they can live in highly filtered rooms like hospitals or cleanrooms, heck with bots+ai they won't even need people to run them eventually
People want to compare this to the pre-industrial rail buildouts, and sure there are some parallels, but I'd be curious to know if that period had the widespread political resentment towards to infrastructure construction that we're seeing today. Because I can also envision a scenario in which the capacity just doesn't get built since being pro-data center is becoming a political death sentence. And what happens then?
0: https://www.businessinsider.com/greg-abbott-texas-data-cente...