3 comments

  • nbadg 16 minutes ago
    For anyone else who didn't have "remote perspectives" in their personal technical lexicon: this refers to performing the ACME challenge/response check when validating the domain of a certificate signing request from multiple physical locations, and therefore via multiple physical network routes, in order to make network-level attacks more difficult.

    For example, if you were validating example.com, you'd need to set up some response to the ACME challenge somewhere, either through direct DNS-based validation (DNS-01, DNS-PERSIST-01) or through a server running at the resolved A/AAAA IP address for example.com (HTTP-01, TLS-ALPN-01). In all cases, when a CA goes to validate your challenge response, it relies both upon DNS and upon the network integrity between the CA's datacenters and your DNS and/or app servers. Both of these can be subverted, eg via BGP attack, to allow an attacker to replace a DNS response, re-route the destination IP address to a different server, etc, at which point they can inject their own challenge response, and therefore issue their own (unauthorized) certificates.

    Multi-perspective validation means that the CA validates your challenge response from multiple datacenters on different networks instead of just one, such that a hypothetical network attack would have to target multiple independent networks in order to successfully issue their unauthorized certificate.

    More info:

    https://letsencrypt.org/2020/02/19/multi-perspective-validat...

    https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/multi-perspective-valida...

  • throw0101a 33 minutes ago
    In August an attacker was able to get a certificate issued even with multi-perspective validation:

    > For 33 hours in late August, a rival network hijacked a block of Hetzner-hosted infrastructure serving Softaculous and Virtualizor, using it to issue a valid TLS certificate and push a malicious software update. The stolen route was RPKI-invalid the entire time, on file, checkable by anyone. It still won on most of the internet.

    > At 20:57 UTC on 28 August, a network nobody at Hetzner or Softaculous had dealt with before started announcing 162.55.80.0/24 to the internet. It was a small, unremarkable-looking slice of Hetzner’s own address space — the block hosting Softaculous’s client area, its billing pages, and the update endpoint that every Virtualizor-licensed control panel on the internet periodically calls home to. For the next 33 hours, with an 11-hour lull in the middle, a meaningful share of global traffic bound for that block went to the hijacker instead. Some of it was Let’s Encrypt’s own domain-control validation, which is how the attacker walked away with a certificate for virtualizor.com that no browser would ever flag.

    * https://cloudpunk.blog/post/bgp-hijack-rpki-gap/

    So it's all very well to have multiple network locations to prevent hijacking on the path (i.e., you have to attack multiple paths), but if the network as a whole thinks the destination is someplace else then all those paths will lead to the same (false) location.

    Perhaps the CAB should consider RPKI validation as a "MUST" rather than piling on multiple sources of validation who still have the same single point of failure (the spoofing of the destination).

    • woodruffw 4 minutes ago
      70% adoption doesn't seem high enough or it to be a mandatory component of validation[1], that seems like it would be very disruptive to nearly a third of the Internet.

      [1]: https://ipinfo.io/blog/rpki-protects-70-internet-routes

    • Lex-2008 4 minutes ago
      I think having multiple authoritative DNS servers in different networks might help with this.

      I'm not sure how CAs deal with situations when a domain has several authoritative DNS servers, but not all of them respond with expected reply. Would it would be a good idea for CAs to ask *all* authoritative DNS servers and require a coherent answer from them?

  • Schlagbohrer 25 minutes ago
    It is wild to think that enabling HTTPS used to be difficult and expensive before Let's Encrypt came along in the wake of the Snowden revelations.
    • educar 0 minutes ago
      how are snowden and LE related?
    • onionisafruit 16 minutes ago
      Before reading this I never considered Snowden could have been a motivator for Let’s Encrypt.
      • meuna 5 minutes ago
        Same. Fact checking on Wikipedia seems to indicate that the letsencrypt initiative predates Snowden revelations.