I Don't Understand Quantum Physics (2018)

(southampton.ac.uk)

74 points | by rramadass 1 hour ago

18 comments

  • bobvanluijt 26 minutes ago
    Somewhat related: a book that really helped me is Picturing Quantum Processes by Bob Coecke. It's a visual representation of quantum processes, which really helped me understand the concept
  • asystole 42 minutes ago
    This piece looks great, adding to my ever-growing "to read" collection on Zotero.

    If anyone is interested in self-studying quantum physics, QFT for the Gifted Amateur [1] is very well regarded.

    1: https://academic.oup.com/book/36442?login=false

    • ktallett 6 minutes ago
      Second this book, but you need a source before this to study QP successfully. This requires a lot of UG maths and physics knowledge that I think most would not have.
  • quietFerry94 47 minutes ago
    That pre-determined value idea is exactly local hidden variables, and Bell's inequality rules it out, Aspect's 1982 CHSH experiment measured the violation.
    • caturopath 24 minutes ago
      To be precise, Bell's inequality rules out a local hidden variable theory. Pilot wave theories/Bohmian mechanics is an attempt to describe a nonlocal hidden variable theory of quantum mechanics.
      • antonvs 19 minutes ago
        To be even more precise, it rules out hidden variable theories that satisfy Bell locality, i.e. the assumptions that the theorem makes.

        Superdeterminism and retrocausality both allow for local hidden variables - it’s just that they don’t satisfy Bell’s assumptions.

    • antonvs 24 minutes ago
      If you saw that in section 15, the very next paragraph covers Bell.
  • isolli 1 hour ago
    In a podcast, Alain Aspect (Nobel Prize winner) explained that he does use the power of visualization and his imagination to generate new ideas, but that he always needs to check them with actual calculations because no mental picture can be an accurate representation of quantum physics.
  • dtj1123 29 minutes ago
    We understand quantum mechanics well enough to build machines that depend almost entirely on quantum principles.

    It sounds all superior and mysterious to quote Feynman here, but the fact is many people absolutely do understand quantum mechanics.

    • Razengan 24 minutes ago
      Or we understand only just enough to make things that work on (and up to) the layer that we understand.

      Ancient humans could build boats 5000 years ago and expand throughout the planet, but they didn't know about water being made up of hydrogen+oxygen, or the tides being caused by the moon, etc.

      Their calculations served them on the layer they operated on.

      • lloeki 9 minutes ago
        > the tides being caused by the moon

        Mostly because people around the mediterranean sea didn't have to care, tides being so small there. Yet the Greek had fairly advanced models of tide schedules.

        Pretty sure peoples that were experiencing bigger tides and depended on it e.g for fishing figured out the relationship with the moon pretty quickly, whatever esoteric reason they may have plastered upon it.

  • lkm0 16 minutes ago
    "IS QUANTUM PHYSICS CORRECT AND COMPLETE?" is reductive, there are more quantum denominations: Copenhagen, QBism, RQM, consistent histories, Many-worlds, Bohmian mechanics, and various spontaneous collapse people. I might've missed a few.
    • Synaesthesia 7 minutes ago
      Yes this is a particular interest of mine, the various interpretations of QM. Most physicists subscribe to the Copenhagen interpretation, but I still find it has philosophical quandaries. He mentioned many-worlds. Bohmian mechanics has been shown to be inadequate.

      Blokhinstev's ensemble interpretation, which I like, is unattractive to many.

  • frumiousirc 38 minutes ago
    I take issue with "understand". I agree QM can not be understood in terms of everyday experience. One must build experience, language and proper metaphor for the understanding. For example, in the intro Ross uses the example of explaining a waterfall to someone who never saw it. He says that can be done but he relies on implicitly the listener knowing what people on Earth may take for granted. That understanding of a waterfall can only happen if the listener already has some understanding of fluid flow and gravity. We do, but say a newly found alien friend from a dry environment that had never experienced fluid flow would not have the mental building blocks to understand it. Feynman gave a famous interview where he said, essentially, "no, I can't explain it to you because you are too ignorant" (he said it more politely). Going the other direction, Physics steeped enough in quantum theory do understand QM enough to have meaningful discussions free (at times) of rigorous math. They do this because they have a shared language, vocabulary, metaphor. Sure, they must rely on math and experiment to ground that understanding in truth but I guarantee they do not communicate understanding (solely) in math and measurement data.
    • soliax 35 minutes ago
      [dead]
    • charcircuit 31 minutes ago
      Why can AI generate pictures of waterfalls if it has never lived on Earth?
  • chistev 1 hour ago
    "I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics."

    - Richard Feynman

    • stratos123 20 minutes ago
      Whether this was even true in Feynman's time, it's much less true now.
    • ahartmetz 58 minutes ago
      I also like "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don't understand quantum mechanics" which is supposedly also from Feynman.
      • chistev 40 minutes ago
        I think it's one of those famous quotes that was never said. The one I quoted was what he apparently said.
      • atemerev 49 minutes ago
        Quantum _mechanics_ cannot be understood, it is full of paradoxes. It contradicts classical EM and special relativity, among other things. A toy theory that was an important step to what came later.

        Feynman's own QED is a part of QFT, but this is no longer quantum mechanics. Special relativity and quantum physics are reconciled since then. Now, we only need to reconcile GR and QFT, but this leap was so far beyond our attempts to scale it. Yet, QED/QFT/SM can be "understood" as there are fewer obvious paradoxes that plagued QM.

  • ktallett 8 minutes ago
    The key aspects of quantum physics can be explained very simply. The issue is going in depth without those basics. I often find if someone doesn't get Quantum Physics, it's that source or you need the steps explaining more in-depth. Often sources assume your base knowledge and that is where many fall flat.
  • bozdemir 38 minutes ago
    So do the rest of us.
  • phpnodejspwn 13 minutes ago
    2 things to understand about science:

    It's useful, not metaphysically real. (Hot take btw) This is called Instrumentalism. The belief that it's real is called Scientific Realism. However over and over again, science can't cover edge cases, and we find better fitting models. The Copernician revolution is a good example of this dichotomy.

    2. Academia basically forces you to believe the doctrine or you fail the class. From philosophy to physics to sociology. If you read the philosopher survey, you will find trendy things being quite high. It's a religion in itself.

    Bonus 3: Philosophical Pragmatism and Instrumentalism generally solves this, but is intellectually a dead end. There is a reason analytic philosophy continues despite gaping holes in linguistics (late Wittgenstein) that ruin it. But at the same time, best fits might be missing a new paradigm. I wish I could tell people to ask AI to explain Hegel to understand, but I think people need to read it themselves.

    Tl;dr: quantum mechanics is the best we have. It's definitely wrong, but it's the most useful we have.

  • polotics 1 hour ago
    me neither! How does the Einstein Rosen Podosky Paradox work? can the unknown that's being collapsed not be a pre-determined value that therefore is not traveling faster than the speed of light?
    • superluserdo 49 minutes ago
      >can the unknown that's being collapsed not be a pre-determined value that therefore is not traveling faster than the speed of light?

      This is known as a "hidden variable theory". People will tell you that a local (things can only affect their immediate surroundings) version of the theory is impossible because it would be a violation of Bell's inequality, but there is a loophole that requires accepting the idea of "superdeterminism". This is the idea that where what measurement a scientist chooses to measure is predetermined and correlated with what the particle being measured is going to do.

      So if a particle lands on a screen according to distribution p when going through a double slit, but with distribution p' when one of the slits is measured at, conventional QM says that the measurement "collapses the wave function". But a superdeterministic local hidden variable theory would imply that the choice of whether to measure at the slit or not was already set in stone at the same time that the particle "decided" which path to take to land on the screen, more or less.

    • lkm0 10 minutes ago
      One of the "coping mechanisms" on a superficial level is to say that information cannot travel faster than light, even if entanglement is propagated instantaneously and measurement acts faster than light. If Alice and Bob share an entangled pair of spins and Alice measures it, Bob has gained no information until Alice communicates (sublight speed) her result. They could've agreed beforehand on what entangled pair they want to get, so that Bob immediately knows when Alice has measured on her end, but again: this requires previous sublight communication. No information is shared at measurement time.
    • T-A 1 hour ago
  • rramadass 1 hour ago
    Author: Prof. Douglas Ross of Southampton University - https://www.southampton.ac.uk/~doug/
  • noduerme 26 minutes ago
    My question is, if I just refuse to believe in quantum physics, that makes it go away and/or be inapplicable to me, right?

    Uh oh, some people have no sense of humor =\

  • atemerev 1 hour ago
    When I learned about causal sets program and algebraic quantum field theory, I finally (somewhat) understood quantum physics.

    Tl;dr spacetime does not exist as a global background where things are "placed", it is not ontic. "Things" are first, and spacetime is derived from interaction statistics of "things". This eliminates nearly all naive paradoxes like double slit etc. Now, these "things" are somewhat complicated and non-intuitive (e.g. there are no individual "particles", they are a limit of discrete distributions), but that's a good start.

    • cgio 1 hour ago
      Sorkin is great. I think causal sets make some things simpler but other more mysterious. I also found t’ Hooft’s automata and Spekkens toy illuminating in different ways.
      • atemerev 57 minutes ago
        "Was", unfortunately. He died this September. What a loss, he earned a Nobel long ago.
  • soliax 37 minutes ago
    [dead]
  • mkesper 16 minutes ago
    (2018)